Tina: It says, "Please wait".

Tina: Okay. So, I know that I think you were my favorite sending the invite to, because you wrote back, "Well, I'm not good at this, I'm not good at that," about interviewing, and I thought it was funny, because-

Calvin Ma: I like to throw that out, because I really am terrible at these things.

Tina: Why do you think that is?

Calvin Ma: I don't know. Growing up, I was always really nervous connecting with people, trying to meet people.

Tina: I read that in your-

Calvin Ma: Yeah, and it's just always stuck with me. I've just always been afraid to socialize, and when I have to present myself, it's just a big thing in my head. It never works out the way I think it would.

Tina: Do you give talks and things like that?

Calvin Ma: Yeah. Those are terrifying for me. To have to [crosstalk 00:00:50]-

Tina: But you do them?

Calvin Ma: I do them.

Tina: Good.

Calvin Ma: Yeah. And then my voice shakes and everything, and it's terrible.

Tina: Yeah. I used to be in the corporate world. I'm taking this time off to do some of these things. Eventually I'll go back, but I remember I've had to go on stage with 300 people, and I heard the voice shaking thing, it's funny because it gives you away. Even when you're like, "I'm going to nail this." And you're like, "Hello everyone."

Calvin Ma: And it psychs you out too, because you realize you're doing it.

Tina: Yes.

Calvin Ma: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Tina: The other thing I used to do is hold my breath. So your voice gets higher because you're not breathing in. It was horrible.

Tina: So tell me about your family structure. Did you have brother, sisters [inaudible 00:01:33] tell me about that.

Calvin Ma: I have an older brother and an older sister. Yeah, we all grew up together in the same house, and it was a small house. So we shared a lot of space. My brother, I think my brother was a huge influence on me because he liked comics, he liked cartoons and then I really connected to him in that way.

Tina: How much older is he?

Calvin Ma: I think he's six year older.

Tina: Okay.

Calvin Ma: Yeah. And my sister is four years older.

Tina: Are they shy as well or ...?

Calvin Ma: My brother's a lot more outgoing than I am. My sister, she has a little bit of ... what's it called, bi-polar? So she has small mental issues that she's being medicated on right now, so ... and we kinda had a falling out, so I haven't really connected with her over the years. And yeah.

Tina: Yeah, that's fine. Where did you grow up?

Calvin Ma: Born and raised in San Francisco.

Tina: Oh that's right. I read that.

Calvin Ma: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tina: I love that.

Calvin Ma: Yeah. I love the city. I don't get out a lot, but I love it. Every time I get to go out and see the lights and everything. I'm a city boy.

Tina: Yeah.

Calvin Ma: Yeah.

Tina: And this city.

Calvin Ma: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Tina: 'Cause it does feel different. Angela and I were talking about that it feels different than other places.

Calvin Ma: It does.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, it's like a big small city.

Tina: Yes.

Calvin Ma: Uh-huh (affirmative). Not like Chicago or New York or anything like that.

Tina: Exactly right. Exactly right. But it has the bigness of thought that you feel in New York too.

Calvin Ma: Exactly.

Tina: That's what we thought. And you agree. Rocket agrees.

Tina: So in growing up, and let me reiterate today because you've probably been asked a lot about your work and your technique in that. I wanna go back to before you were Calvin Ma, famous artist, to you were however old. Your brother and sister are there. Your brother's playing with the action figures I see here, and then ... were you openly communicative with your brother and sister and that was no problem? And within your family? It's just externally when you have ...?

Calvin Ma: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's anything that's not immediate family, I kinda have a hard time reaching out to people. I think-

Tina: But you don't seem averse.

Calvin Ma: I think I put it on, it's not naturally me.

Tina: Right. So you're politely ...

Calvin Ma: Yeah, I feel like that's a lot like with my work. That's why I had my figures always kind of covered with this kind of mask. And I think that's where it comes out in the work.

Tina: Yeah, 'cause I didn't notice that, if you don't pay attention, you'll miss the faces that are inside peering out in some of them.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, yeah, and that's me always kinda wondering what's going on, outside.

Tina: Yes, and I was looking last night, I thought it was interesting. It was just the way the page was, but there was Calvin Ma at the top and then I looked at some of the titles and I was like, oh, this must be how he feels. It was, Don't Go, it was Sway, it was ... and I was like, "Oh these are ..."

Calvin Ma: Yeah. It's like a three dimensional journal, almost. Like I talk about different aspects of having social anxiety and being afraid to go out and be social.

Tina: Yeah. And I think, and Angela, you're welcome. But she's just gonna be ... she's not there.

Tina: So that's interesting to me because as I was looking at your work on your site and anywhere I could find you, you seem so prolific, which to me is expressive. You know, you have so much work, and then you started venturing into the Blend Ins, and the Homebodies, you call the whole series Homebodies, but it's so expressive. So I just wanted you to talk to me little bit about the fact that you're somewhat averse but then so expressive.

Calvin Ma: I don't know, I think I ... I fell in love with working with clay and I didn't realize all the social aspects that come with it, having to do shows and put myself out there.

Angela: [inaudible 00:05:44]

Calvin Ma: She's like, "I know, I heard this too many times."

Tina: Sorry, that's such a good thing to say but I can't think of [inaudible 00:05:51].

Tina: Right, so you were thinking that it was very-

Calvin Ma: Intimate. Yeah because it's just me in the studio playing around with clay and just me and the clay. But all these other things came with it, like I had to go out to shows and present myself and talk about the work and all this. I feel like it kind of helped with my social anxiety, but it feels fake in a way because I have to put myself on because that's not really who I am. I'm more shy and ... uh-oh, there goes a pop.

Tina: It's a bird. For people listening, it's his bird that pooped, not Calvin.

Calvin Ma: But yeah, I'm more reserved and apprehensive a lot of times. Yeah.

Tina: You know what, I think this is really, really, really good to explore and I wanna ask you some more questions about it, because this whole project is about people understanding that they're not born an artist and then everybody recognizes it. You have to kind of grow into it and you have to be a little brave. So it's interesting to me, and I love the juxtaposition of here's this person who self-identifies as having anxiety and not socially wanting to get out there, but then you stepped forward into something that's hard to proclaim. So talk to me, was it a drive?

Calvin Ma: I think it's more of a want to keep doing this because I don't wanna get a real job just yet.

Tina: Well, you probably won't need to, I mean ...

Calvin Ma: But like, after I graduated a gallery picked me up instantly and they just wanted more and more work and I was like, "I could do this as a living." So I kept pushing myself, I didn't want to go out and find a job so I have to make this work, and I think that was kind of the driving force for me to kind of push myself to actually go to the openings and try to network and put myself out there.

Tina: Because you were in a few of your pictures. I saw you in some of your opening, you know ... so let's talk about that a little bit, because I feel like, and I could be wrong, so you correct me, or Rocket can correct me, is ... so you have this drive, but when you were six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, finding a job wasn't your drive then. So talk to me about the first time you wanted to work with your hands, because I know it came out of the [inaudible 00:08:20], readily, but talk to me about that.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, so my parents spoiled me with toys and ... I had a handful of friends, but I think they kind of saw so they spoiled me with toys, they gave me a bunch of it and I grew up around it. So when I was growing up I really wanted to be in the toy industry. I've always liked taking toys apart, putting them back together and you know, playing with them of course. When I went to college I studied industrial design to really step forward and try to be ... you know-

Tina: I see that in the structures and the ... yeah, that's interesting. Okay, keep ...

Calvin Ma: I thought that it was more geared towards a specific customer, like you would always design for a specific customer and there wasn't a lot of freedom in that. So after I graduated we had some family issues that kind of took me out for half a year, and after that I went back to school to study figurative sculpture, because I found out that I had to learn the human figure to be a toy sculptor. I took a lot of figurative sculpture classes and one of the requirements was a ceramics class. My teacher was this amazing lady who ... she sculpted these really dilapidated looking dolls, but she was really great at it. She would make them look like they were aged for many years and she had this toy aspect in her work that I loved.

Calvin Ma: I just kind of connected to her through our artwork and I just kind of fell in love with clay. Because I get to make what I want to make, it's not an action figure for the masses, it's something that's coming out of my head and into three dimensional form and it's kind of just for me. That was in school and I really loved that I can take ideas in my head and just kind of form them into something I can look three dimensionally.

Tina: Yeah, it's interesting to me hearing you talk about the industrial design, which is almost the mechanics of how things are structured and then you had to learn the human form. It's almost like you're kind of dissecting all of that because it's something that's curious to you because it doesn't come easily. You know, so it's interesting to me how those two things came together because what you make, again, is so expressive and you can see both of those aspects in it. Your forms are kind of perfect the way they move and you can tell that you've studied movement and things. And then the design aspect, the structures that you put with, it's kind of interesting to see that come together.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, that's what I've heard. I've tied a lot of that industrial design aspect of it, like the drafting, the mold making, you know, making everything precise. I'm glad that I took those classes when I did because I got to take that with me into the figurative sculpture and into ceramics.

Tina: So let's go back because I didn't push you enough. When you decided ... you know, we talked about the class with the sculptor. When you were growing up and playing with the figures and stuff did you ... you know, because they seemed like they were very important to you as a means of expression and kind of ... when did that turn to, "I wanna make something like this." When did that start to turn and when did you pick up your first?

Calvin Ma: I think I would say maybe end of high school, college. Because that's when you wanna get a job, you wanna make some money, you can buy your own food and stuff like that. I had a bunch of action figures and then I started to customize them. Like we had this clay that kind of air dries, I would sculpt different textures onto them and add details and stuff. Then I would begin to sell them on eBay, and that became kind of my part time job. It actually paid my way through college with that, so.

Tina: Oh nice!

Calvin Ma: I think that's kind of where it began, where I was working with my hands and involving my toys and action figures.

Tina: So tell me mindset wise, here's Calvin who has played with these growing up, and they've been kind of this outlet for you, your idea, like a [wooby 00:12:49], you know, that's your kind of safe thing. What was the impetus, or what made you start modifying them? Was it bigger mouth, bigger ears, or was it another arm? Tell me a little bit more about what the modification was.

Calvin Ma: Well I'm a huge dork, you know. I'm on the toy forums and everything researching what's coming out next. There's a whole kind of subculture where people customize their action figures, and then I really wanted to get into that. I was like, "I think oi can do that." I jumped right in and just kind of fell in love with being a part of this community.

Tina: You felt your people.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, uh-huh. But they were all over the country. Yeah, I think that's how I started to make and involve my toys. Yeah, that was it, that was around high school, I think first year of college that I really got into that.

Tina: So tell me about, and I'm really interested in this. So you were modifying, which is a form already made and kind of a personality and a figure already made, and then ... he's in rapture, he doesn't wanna ... oh, he's going for your bird.

Tina: The first time you made your own. So talk to me about how did that happen? Were you angry, sad, happy or was it just something you were like, I'm gonna ...

Calvin Ma: I think it was joy because I think customizing these action figures brought me a lot of joy. Not just being able to sell them, there was a lot of enjoyment in just working with my hands and making.

Calvin Ma: I don't know, I'm sorry [crosstalk 00:14:32]

Tina: No, that's fine. And that's normal because I usually interrupt and [inaudible 00:14:36]. When did you make your own from head to toe? Or wing to claw or whatever it was.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, no I think that just kind of morphed. I customized and customized it and you just wanna ... you know, step up your game every single time and make something to wow people. I think the first time I made it there was a series of action figures that I really liked and they never made this one character. I felt like there was something missing so I had to just jump in and make it. I ended up sculpting it and I did a half decent job. You know, I had made a mold of it and other people in the forums were like, "Can I get one?" Then I started casting them for people. It just became a whole production thing.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, it's one of those things where you just kind of fall into it, you don't really plan it out but it just kinda morphs into it.

Tina: Yes, and that's what I'm hoping people start to see. Because again, this whole project is about other Calvins and Bruces and Elizabeths that are out there that have this drive, or want to express but are kept down by either society or anxiety or ... I think it's hard to walk in front of a room and say, "I'm an artist." I think it's very difficult because of what we've all put around it as what that means. So that's why I'm trying to ... you know?

Calvin Ma: Yeah. Uh-huh. I don't even consider myself a artist now, I feel like I'm a maker.

Tina: Okay.

Calvin Ma: The work that I make, I don't ever see it ending up in a museum or anything like that. So I feel like I'm a maker.

Tina: Right.

Calvin Ma: Yeah.

Tina: Different between a maker and an artist to you.

Calvin Ma: I don't know, I think ... when I look at artists, like the ones that I look up to, they're highly conceptual and like, just the aesthetic of what they make looks like it belongs in a museum. I think I'm kind of on the fringe of that, it's more craft and ... I don't see it as fine art. I still somewhat see it as a little kitschy sometimes, but I enjoy doing it.

Tina: Do you think you see it that way because of your self lens? Or is it just something like, because there's a production aspect to it versus just this ... you know, painter brush purity? Or is it just ...

Calvin Ma: Yeah, I don't know. I think it's more of a self lens thing because I'm not one to boast or ... you know.

Tina: I can see that.

Calvin Ma: Uh-huh. So I think that's why I say that. And also the work itself, it's just really more playful than things you would see in a museum.

Tina: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Calvin Ma: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tina: Interesting. Because I think some of the great works are somewhat playful, but they're also conceptual and that's what I see your work as. So it's interesting that way.

Tina: So I wanna press you on one thing that's interesting is you say, you know, "It's production and I don't see it in a museum," and all of that, but the demand for it, I looked through your small shop and it is all sold out except for like, four things. It's ten pages sold out, and I know some of that's your wife's work. Then even when I'm inquiring about some of the pieces I like they're sold out, sold out, sold out. So I feel like people are seeing a lot in your work, but you didn't create it for that. I think that's art. Like you, you know. Any reaction to that? That there's this huge demand for it.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, and that's what blows me away because I'm having the chance to make what I want and people are actually connecting with the work and that's what I love about it. You know, like getting to go to the openings and meeting the people that are interested in actually taking it home. And then they're talking about ... they know the story, they're connecting with it and they're always like, "I know how you feel." Everybody has different levels of social anxiety and I love that people can actually connect with it. That's what I like about doing the work now.

Tina: Yeah.

Calvin Ma: You start to find different aspects of making the work that you love.

Tina: Right, so let's talk about that. What was first, how did you evolve and was that a ... I'm making this up, so please correct me if it's not right, was there a parallel between as your work started to evolve and your social anxiety lessening? Or were you just able to handle it better?

Calvin Ma: I don't think I'm handling it better, it's just more of a ... I don't know, I feel like I can mask my anxiety a little better.

Calvin Ma: Yeah. I'm sorry, just kinda.

Tina: No, no. That's fine.

Calvin Ma: Uh-huh.

Tina: So I asked you a question and then I asked you another one on top of it, which was not fair. Take me through what was first, was it Homebodies then ... how did that start to, Blend In and, you know.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, Blend Ins started in college. Everybody had to have a concept and I wasn't sure what it was. I was just learning how to play with clay and I didn't know what you could do with it so I came up with this series where all the figures kind of blended into the environment.

Tina: The Honey Man and the [crosstalk 00:20:18].

Calvin Ma: Yeah, uh-huh. That was like a good tap-

Angela: Oh my goodness.

Calvin Ma: He wants a kiss.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, so I just had all these figures blend in to their environment and that sort of became ... I think subconsciously it was me trying to blend into the social environment.

Tina: Yes.

Calvin Ma: So I kind of just took off with that.

Tina: Unless it's bothering you it's not bothering me. Did you see ... I, Tonya? Did you see the movie?

Calvin Ma: Oh yeah, yeah.

Tina: Remember the birds?

Calvin Ma: Oh yeah, it was the same kind of bird, too. We were like, "Oh my god, that's Rocket!"

Tina: [inaudible 00:20:58] when you did that and I was like, "Get off me."

Calvin Ma: He loves to do that.

Tina: He's probably like, "I wanna talk."

Calvin Ma: Say hello. Hello.

Tina: He's shy, see.

Calvin Ma: He is.

Tina: So you did blend ins because that was a concept. And you ... that's pretty cute. You translated that to, "This is me trying to blend in." So it was you kind of ... then how did you get to Homebodies, take me through that.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, so the Homebodies actually came from Blending In because I had one of the figures blend into the house and that's actually the first Homebody that I made there. That was part of the Blending In series.

Tina: Right. Oh, so I can see the ... yeah. He has both aspects. Or she.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, they're kind of ... yeah, ambiguous in their sex. Yeah, that's kind of how Homebodies came about. After I was done with the Blending In I wasn't sure where I was gonna go, but I really fell in love with the idea of the homebody being my avatar, because I feel like when I leave the protective walls of home I always take a part of that with me out into the world. So I always feel like there's some kind of barrier between me and other people and I really loved that idea and just kind of took off with that.

Tina: So important question.

Calvin Ma: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tina: Is your work the barrier or is your work the conduit?

Calvin Ma: I think it's a conduit. It's allowing ... you know, I can tell my stories but also allow me to talk about them out loud because otherwise I wouldn't be talking to this with a friend about it. So yeah, I think it's given me a voice. That's cliché but I think that the work has given me an outlet to talk about my fears and my ... you know.

Tina: So this is your conversation, this is your-

Calvin Ma: Yeah.

Tina: Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about ... we talked about home, and that construct and going forward, and then you're married now.

Calvin Ma: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tina: So when you say home is it childhood home, home with wife, or studio? Or a blend or ... talk to me when you said home.

Calvin Ma: I think it's mostly a studio because I'm here more than anywhere else. It's either here, every other weekend I would go out with some high school buddies and have a drink or whatever, but for the most part I'm here. My wife is the same way, she works all the time, so we're always in the studio. This feels more like home than anything else.

Tina: Right, right, right, right, right, right, right. And does she have anxiety as well?

Calvin Ma: I think she's a little bit more outgoing than I am, which I love because I can kind of latch on to that and feed off of it.

Tina: And that's common. He did yes again.

Calvin Ma: You agree.

Tina: He's awesome. We'll have to get his agent to sign his rights to be in the photography.

Calvin Ma: He'll get him to hold it with his little feet.

Tina: Right. So yeah, so this is your womb. Okay, and this is your safe space.

Calvin Ma: Yep, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tina: For understanding purposes and not sensationalism, are you comfortable answering what happened with the break in your family and about when that was?

Calvin Ma: Yeah, sure. I guess my sister ... it's more with my sister than anybody else, I get along with my parents fine and my brother fine, but with my sister, she kind of fell in with the wrong crowd. She has some drug problems and I think that kind of just exacerbated her mental issues that might've been there to begin with. When she started showing symptoms of her bipolar and mental issues, we just kept butting heads. She had this one boyfriend that just ... just an asshole.

Tina: Good summary.

Calvin Ma: They wound up having a kid, and as soon as the kid was born he was nowhere to be found and she was in postpartum depression stage so that she had to be held in-

Tina: On top of her other, yeah.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, so she had to be held in a hospital for the first three months of her kid's life. So I ended up with a newborn baby in my hands after I graduated, not expecting to have to do that. I would look after the kid morning til night and then I would hand him off to her grandparents. That happened for I think three to four months and then when she got out of the hospital it was like, me taking care of the kid and her as well.

Tina: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Calvin Ma: She would just ... I don't know, we just kept butting heads, it wouldn't work. Since then we just never repaired the relationship.

Tina: Right. Did your ... thank you.

Calvin Ma: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tina: Did you work during that time? Were you still creating during that?

Calvin Ma: I think I was fortunate enough to fall into that customizing action figures thing.

Tina: He got it off.

Calvin Ma: Because I could still work from home and make money that way. Yeah, that's what I was doing, I was just taking care of the baby and making toys.

Tina: Right, yeah. Maybe that's why you have that feel ... again, I'm guessing things, maybe that's why you have that feel about your art that it's not museum worthy, because it's derivative of your experience with toys, with mass produced toys.

Calvin Ma: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tina: So you know, maybe that ...

Calvin Ma: That could be it.

Tina: Yeah, because it doesn't ... it's very good.

Calvin Ma: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tina: So I wanna go back to ... and I've asked this a couple times, so it's just me digging at it a little bit. When you made that first ... you know, that's the first Homebody, but when you made that first wholly Calvin design, or construct or piece, was it head, arms, legs, body? Did it have super powers? Was it a character type? Would you ascribe it a personality or was it just ... tell me a little bit more about that.

Calvin Ma: I just felt like it was an avatar of myself. Like if i were to see myself in a cartoon, that would be me.

Tina: I see.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, like carrying around my barriers and you know, always wondering what's going on because those faces and the windows.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, I just thought that was ... that's how I would look in a cartoon and as an action figure, yeah.

Tina: Would you say, and I'm putting words in your mouth, or your bird is. Would you say that that was a significant point in your birth as an artist?

Calvin Ma: I think so because that series is what kind of took me into showing my work and selling the work. That's really what told me I can do this as a living. So it feels like my baby, and it carried me ... you know, because it's been four or five years since I graduated and I'm still doing this, so I feel like it's a big part of myself.

Tina: Yeah, it is. I mean, obviously from what you said the roots of it and stuff are. Once that Calvin prototype was out, then what happened? Let me be more specific, this is curious to me. So this happened, in the studio or wherever you were, that happened. What did you do with it?

Calvin Ma: Okay, so I felt like ...

Tina: He wants the pen again.

Calvin Ma: I had this character, this vehicle and I kinda looked at it like when I was a kid playing with an action figure, like what do I do with the action figure, I would tell stories with it, I would have it interact with other things and vehicles and objects and other characters to tell a story. So that's when I started having my characters interact with something else. I first made a plane and then I had it sit inside of a plane. Then I was like, okay, what is that gonna say? That's kind of how I came up with this process of relating my anxieties to a specific object.

Calvin Ma: For example, if ... like the plane. What do I see in a plane? Wanting to get away from a huge group of people, I can relate my feelings to certain objects and that's kind of how the method of having it interact with something came about. That's what I'm still doing with the figures. I went through vehicles, animals, and then I did ...

Tina: I saw some Star Wars in there.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, some Star Wars and everyday objects. I did typewriters, boom boxes, stuff like that more recently. And that's how it started.

Tina: And I noticed, and maybe it's just from the body that I looked at, there are a lot of animals. So just talk, is that just a ...

Calvin Ma: That was another thing in my childhood too. I had toys and then I also had small critters. I had turtles, a hamster, fishes.

Tina: Same.

Calvin Ma: I always wanted a little animal around, like a little buddy.

Tina: Yeah.

Calvin Ma: Yeah.

Tina: And they ... yeah that hurts, I remember that. And that ... because there's no judgment, there's no pressure of interaction, it's just this even exchange kind of thing. Like you're doing now with Rocket.

Tina: So okay, baby Calvin was born, then you started making more and more and more. Tell me about the houses on the heads, or what they are.

Calvin Ma: It's more with the theme of the house, you know, more than anything. The faces weren't there to begin with, I felt like it was more to do with the action figure itself than just interacting with planes or cars or whatever. When I opened it up, I was just gonna have it hollow, to let the viewer kind of decide what's going on inside. But I figured out maybe I should have something inside and I just kind of played around with the faces in there and I really loved how that looked and also the concept that went with it. Because I feel like I'm always in my own head. The clouds kind of coming out are just like the thoughts that go through my head every day, they're coming and going.

Tina: Yeah. And I think ... I love that. Maybe that's what ... you know you said something that I think would resonate with everyone is, we're all in our own heads. You know, to different degrees and to different levels of reaction to it, but I think everyone always has that thought of, that questioning. Should I be here? What should I say? What will they think? That's kind of always going on.

Tina: I love that you were gonna leave it hollow but knew that there's so much goin on in that space in particular. You know, so I think it's astute. Maybe that's what people see is they see, "Oh, I feel like that." And I don't know because I haven't met all the people that have seen your work. That would be a long line. But it's ... that makes sense to me when you're talking about it, as a regular person not even as an interviewer.

Tina: So have you found that ... and you said this a little bit earlier, have you found that people reach out to you and feel like you get them because they are like that too?

Calvin Ma: I do. Especially on Instagram, I'll have tons of messages from students. Like people in college, they're going through a ceramics program, they're like, "I love clay and I totally get your story. I can totally connect with it." I love that. Like, I am not the only one out there being a super introvert. Yeah.

Tina: Does that calm or assuage you a little bit?

Calvin Ma: I love hearing the stories how they connect with it, but I don't think it's getting any better. Yeah, I don't know what it is. I've gone to the shows, I've talked to people. At the moment I feel like I'm getting better but as soon as I get home I'm like, "Why did I say that?" You know.

Tina: You get in your own head.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, I get in my own head and right back in there.

Tina: Right. So say you are dressed and ready, and you're getting ready to go to one of your shows, or one that you're in. What are you feeling?

Calvin Ma: Nervousness. Just ... I knock back a few hits of bourbon just to try to get ready. Just really anxious, trying to prepare myself to answer questions that people might ask. Just trying to be fully prepared in answering questions because people come with it and I hate getting caught up or stuck with something that I can't answer. Then I just draw a blank and them I'm like, "Ah," I'm in one of those moments.

Calvin Ma: But then that becomes another piece. You know, I get to talk about that.

Tina: Right, so. Since you gave me the transition, let's talk about your titles of your pieces a little bit because I think they're so intimate and expose you kind of, which is interesting for someone who wants to kind of have a barrier. When I was looking last night, I love Sway and I love Don't Make Waves. Those are all feelings that went through you but yet you're sharing them with ...

Calvin Ma: Yeah. Like I said earlier, it's like a diary for me, almost a three dimensional diary. I never intended it to like, put myself out there, I just wanted to remind myself what that piece was about. It doesn't read like that at first glance, but it's more of a reminder for myself that that's what it's about. A lot of times I'll revisit [inaudible 00:35:52] and then I'll make it with a similar title, or with the same idea in mind. It's just a cycle of just going over all these bad memories and experiences that I've had, hopefully in a way to kind of expel it from myself, you know.

Tina: Right, right, right. Well because it's interesting in that early on, and it actually warms me to hear you say this, I said what made you create, was it fear, anxiety, happy and you said joy.

Calvin Ma: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tina: So what I love is you're taking this stuff that may feel heavy and quasi-negative or negative, but then you're pushing it out with this joy of creating. That's kind of an interesting ...

Calvin Ma: Yeah. And I don't know, i think it's ... I'm afraid of what happens if I'm not making because I don't know if it's gonna get worse. I'm maintaining right now, it's forcing me to get out there. If I'm not showing, or if I'm not making I don't know what I would be doing.

Tina: Right, you would retreat?

Calvin Ma: Yeah, I would just be trapped, those windows would be closed.

Tina: Yeah right. Maybe you're afraid of the hollow, right? Because doesn't the exposure create the feelings?

Calvin Ma: It does, yeah. Uh-huh, but ... yeah it does.

Tina: So that's your impetus point, so you have to keep doing that.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, it's giving me the material to work with.

Tina: Awesome. From your pain comes our [inaudible 00:37:25].

Tina: So you're at a show and everything sells out, which is I think normal for you. What does it feel like when people are taking your Calvin babies and going home with them? Do you have a ...

Calvin Ma: At first it was kind of disheartening because that's my baby, that's the first one I made or that's the second one I made.

Tina: You're good about knowing.

Calvin Ma: Yeah. He gives me a little tension on the finger. He gives me a little squeeze.

Tina: Gotta poop!

Calvin Ma: Yeah.

Angela: Is this for a warning?

Calvin Ma: Yeah.

Tina: That's actually pretty nice of the bird. Mine would just go right down the back.

Tina: So talk to me about taking your ... you said at first-

Calvin Ma: Yeah, at first it was really hard to let go but after a while I get a little more comfortable. Once in a while I'll have a favorite piece that I make and I just don't want to let it go but I can't afford to.

Tina: Right. What makes you wanna hang on to those pieces?

Calvin Ma: I think if I have a really strong feeling about it.

Tina: The strength of the feeling?

Calvin Ma: Yeah like if I ... the thought that I had really stuck in my head and it came out really nice aesthetically, I think that's what makes me wanna keep it. But then, that's the driving force behind the next piece, I'll make that one even better. If I keep making, then I'll feel more comfortable with letting them go. I like the idea of it being in another home other than my own because I'm ... you know, I'm spreading the story.

Tina: It's such an interesting equation. Like I said, the joy and the creation comes from the forcing of the ... yeah, it's an interesting push and pull which is classical among artists. Especially the ones [inaudible 00:39:18]. It's just funny, that's funny to me.

Tina: So ... bodies of work, bodies of work, bodies of work, bodies of work. What is the impetus for you to evolve, like you went from Blend In and you showed us the transition to that, and then are you ...

Calvin Ma: I think it's just a matter of being bored with what I'm doing. Like I'll always push myself to try something new. At the moment, right now, I'm starting on a new series. It's kind of like Blending In but it's more ... I can show you.

Tina: Sure.

Calvin Ma: I'm working on these new molds right now where the animals, or the figures are going to be blending into animals.

Tina: Oh yeah, like the owl head guy?

Calvin Ma: Uh-huh.

Tina: I forgot the name, I'm sorry.

Calvin Ma: I forget too, there's too many.

Tina: Okay, good. I was gonna feel bad. I was looking at it last night because I love owls.

Calvin Ma: So I'm gonna start off with a series of bird ... you know, human figures. Again, I'll relate my feelings to different types of animals.

Tina: Are you anthropomorphic that way?

Calvin Ma: Yeah, I think so.

Tina: I am too, to a fault. We were giving cactuses voices yesterday. They looked expressive to us, but yeah.

Calvin Ma: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So I'm just doing some tests right now.

Tina: Oh wow, can I touch it?

Calvin Ma: Yeah.

Tina: That's gonna be gorgeous. How did you do ... oh, a mold.

Calvin Ma: Yeah so I sculpted the thing first and then I made a mold of it.

Tina: Mm-hmm (affirmative), the detail's amazing.

Calvin Ma: And then I carved in the texture and everything.

Tina: Do you like it? Do you think it's good?

Calvin Ma: He loves carving up my work.

Tina: Oh that's great.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, I'm not sure where it's gonna go yet, but just experimenting right now.

Tina: So this is ... you sit right here and?

Calvin Ma: Yeah, I just sit right here and [inaudible 00:41:12] iPad and then just kind of work away.

Tina: You know, that's interesting that's starting to come out is what people do while they're creating. So you watch a show? Or you listen? Or ...

Calvin Ma: Sometimes I listen to ceramic podcasts and how people work in their studios. But for the most part, I watch shows, yeah. I watch too much TV. [crosstalk 00:41:32]

Tina: Is Rocket out?

Calvin Ma: He's right here so he gets to see everything.

Angela: Oh, he watches you.

Calvin Ma: Yeah. And then his Mommy's right there too, she has a show of her own going on at the same time.

Tina: So let's talk a little bit about that because that's something that I think is interesting too is people say, "I don't have time," or, "I have a family," or I have a whatever and I can't create. So you actually have had experience about the time that it takes to raise a child because of the situation you had with your sister before, how did you meet your wife and tell me a little bit about how that happened because, you know, someone ... how did you meet her?

Calvin Ma: Well I was on my way out of school, it was my last semester and she had just come into the program. Our ceramics department wasn't that big and there wasn't a lot of people interested in clay, but she was one of the ones that really was drawn to it so then we kind of clicked that way. After I graduated I stuck around the school because my instructor allowed me to keep one of the studios and work in it, and we just bonded over clay, over time that way.

Tina: That's awesome. That's a great sentence. So it works because you're both understanding of the drive and the time commitment that you're gonna have here, and the passion for it.

Calvin Ma: Absolutely. I couldn't imagine dating someone that wasn't doing this, because I'm in here all the time. You know, what could someone imagine you'd be doing if you're never with them and you don't have the time to hang out or watch a movie or whatever.

Tina: So would you say ... I mean it sounds like both of you, your art and each other are the same degree because it's the same thing, priority wise.

Calvin Ma: Yeah.

Tina: If she just decided that she was done for a while and didn't come here as often, do you think you would ...

Calvin Ma: I can't imagine that because ... yeah, because-

Tina: Your drive is strong.

Calvin Ma: Her drive is as strong as mine.

Tina: Her stuff has sold out too.

Calvin Ma: Yeah. And we kind of love this thing where like, I would have a deadline and then she would be helping me out. Then when she has a deadline, I'm really pushing her to finish her work. I love the fact that I can go to my own openings and be uncomfortable that way, and then I can go to her openings and be uncomfortable that way.

Tina: And get new material.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, it's always fun. And having the opportunity to go to different cities and show and meet different people from different areas, that's really fun.

Tina: You know that sentence that you just said is an interesting sentence to hear from an introvert. Right? Is it because that's where you get your material and you kind of put yourself in those scenarios to bring out ...

Calvin Ma: I've never really thought about that, but yeah, subconsciously that's probably what it is.

Tina: Because you have the drive to create. You said you can't imagine not ...

Calvin Ma: Not doing it, uh-huh.

Tina: Yeah. So what I love is I think what we're getting around to, most people think of anxiety as an affliction, and you turned it into your super power in a way. I mean, it's how you make your living, it's what drives you, and you put yourself in it. And again, I'm putting words in your mouth so tell me if this is ...

Calvin Ma: No, it sounds correct.

Tina: And I think that people see the honesty and earnestness in your work, you know? Like I said, and even when I was going through the hundreds of artists and stuff, bam. You were bam. This guy for sure. And id didn't know the criteria that I had. When I asked all ten, everybody said yes and everybody matched the criteria.

Calvin Ma: Oh, nice.

Tina: Right? It was kinda strange. Right, I mean not to each letter but for the most part with small variances you all ... so there must be something in you all's work that's just ... you know, because I'm not classically trained at all, I just was looking through and like, "Oh, Calvin for sure." [inaudible 00:45:55]

Tina: Well no, I think again, what I'm really trying to do is bridge people who have something to say or wanna express, I think. Society does a bad job of supporting that, so I'm trying to bridge that a little bit so someone can read this and look at Calvin with Rocket in the studio and go, "I could. I can relate to him at least." Instead of, I think most of the books that I've read about art are so about the artist already established and so far into it and confident that there's no path to that. And that's what I'm trying to find, where's the artist that's ... you know.

Calvin Ma: And thank you for that because, yeah. We always jump at the chance to get out there and yeah, whatever it is. Like the American Craft article, that came out of nowhere and I think that really helped me.

Tina: That's a big one.

Calvin Ma: Yeah. That was really fun. They were saying like-

Tina: Again, really fun.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, it was really fun. It was uncomfortable but it was fun. They had a photographer come and everything and I was like, "Oh my god [inaudible 00:47:04]" But it was fun. It came out of nowhere, she was saying I would get a couple pages, it's nothing big, but it turned out to be an entire spread. I was so humbled. I was like, I don't know, do I deserve it? But yeah, it was great to have.

Tina: Right. So you say you didn't deserve it. Is that the thing you were talking about where you see yourself more as a craftsman than an artist. Is that that?

Calvin Ma: Yeah. I think I'm walking that fine line where I'm more of a craftsman or a maker instead of an artist. But whatever it is I'm happy doing it.

Tina: Best sentence [crosstalk 00:47:45].

Tina: That's been a golden thread so far with everybody is they're at peace with and don't want more. Like you're great with where you are in your life and where it's going.

Calvin Ma: Yeah I'm content, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tina: Right, but not a content give up way, a content I'm doing what I want way. You know? Again, I'm putting words in your mouth.

Calvin Ma: Yeah.

Tina: But it's ... and I did wanna say something else too, that I thought was interesting is you were saying, "I'm not articulate, I don't interview well." Completely wrong. Well what I love is you're not trying to pontificate and you're not trying to be anything you're just Calvin and that's ... again, the honesty comes out in your artwork and in what you're saying. I think it's fantastic. Yeah.

Tina: So back to your work, I'm relentless.

Angela: Wait, can I get you both to give me one quick second because this is an awesome shot with the figurines and everything right behind you. Awesome, perfect. Thank you.

Tina: What you said, when you evolve it's because you're getting bored or you wanna start to ... so the feathers and the face that we just looked at here, did you just turn around and ... or did you, is there something with animals and communicating?

Calvin Ma: I think when I'm working on something, especially at Homebodies, I always had other ideas in the back of my head that I wanna get out and this was something I'd been thinking about for like, I don't know, the past two years?

Tina: So it was germinating.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, it was germinating and this is ... I just had a show recently and this is a perfect opportunity to just jump forward and do something else. This work won't conflict with what's going on with that show and I can have this sort of [inaudible 00:49:37].

Tina: Right. How far apart are the shows?

Calvin Ma: Usually six months. I didn't want them too close together, I didn't want them competing. Yeah, six months is usually a good amount of time between shows.

Tina: So that's a good ... you wanna go back over here or you're good? That's a good question just to get some like ... I'm curious about this. When did you start becoming commercially interesting? You know, like did somebody see it and say, "Oh you have to." How did that happen?

Calvin Ma: I think I got really lucky because right out of college, there was a guy that saw one of my pieces and I ... I should go back. I first started applying to all the ceramic competitions that I could get into as a way of getting out there. Someone had seen one of my pieces at a show and they contacted a gallery they used to show at, and they ended up contacting me and saying, "I loved your work. What do you have?" At the time I had a shelf full of work. It just worked out.

Tina: It's like your first album, it's all here.

Calvin Ma: And they were like, "I'll take everything." I didn't know if it was real. I did my research to make sure it was legit and it was a real gallery, and they were. They ended up taking me to this really big art fair in Chicago where they show a lot of glasswork, a lot of professional ceramic work. I felt like I did not fit in that space, but they had the confidence to take all of my work there and I got a lot of eyes looking at the work. Everything sold and I think from that point on I was like, "This is a living, I can do this." It's not a great living, I'm not living in luxury or anything but it's enough to get by and for me to continue doing this. I got really lucky in that way, right out of school.

Tina: Right. And again, I think it goes back to the honesty of your work. I mean, your work is you. It's so funny because you're here. So let's talk about that from a feeling standpoint, because we talk a lot about that the impetus for your work is the anxiety and some of the fears and some of the things that go through your brain. Are there pieces from joy and happy that go through your brain as well, or is it mostly from the struggle part?

Calvin Ma: Some happy. The happy ones would come from when I met my wife. I always had this title in mind, there was a piece I wanted to title I Wish I Already Knew You, because that's when I first met her and I would always see her in the classroom but I was too afraid to introduce myself and say hi and talk. You know, that was a title that always stuck with me in my head. I finally ended up making it last year and then ... I kinda liked making that so from time to time I will make one with a happy memory just to kinda mix it up.

Tina: Well did you give it to her or did you sell it?

Calvin Ma: We sold it. We sold it and then we had a nice dinner afterwards with it.

Tina: Right, because the sentiment was between you, that was the expression of it. Yeah, that's great.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, from time to time I'll throw a happy memory in there.

Tina: Well because some of them to me, and this is just me, five foot five who am I? But when I look at it I see some of it and maybe some of it is the title's influence. I see some of it as struggle, introvert, so you've told me. Then I see some of it as moments of, not necessarily whimsy but more like, there's some with a dog, or a doglike figure that you seemed happy. There were some birds. I thought maybe that's when you feel okay. Or is it that you're just ...

Calvin Ma: I think the animals are more of a ... I don't know what's the word. Like, they help me get through those moments.

Tina: Yes.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, like more of a companion piece more than anything else. Yeah.

Tina: Okay, that makes sense to me too. When you first started did you make things that you were like, "I don't even know why I made this."

Calvin Ma: Oh absolutely, yeah. The Blending Ins there was like ... that series I had a lot of pieces that I just trashed. Like I finished it and I hated the way it looked and I just threw it away.

Tina: Where!? No, I'm kidding. The reason I'm asking that is because I think anyone who's never ... you know, I'm 51 and if picking up something I would expect because of my maturity, that I would create something great right off and you don't. You can't. I don't think you can listen to that voice and immediately translate as well.

Calvin Ma: Yeah.

Tina: So can you talk to me?

Calvin Ma: I think over time I kind of figured out that even if it doesn't connect with me, someone else might connect with it. I've always had the urge to just trash a piece if it doesn't turn out the way I imagined it in my head, but I kinda wanted to stick with it and finish it and put it out there. Then more often than not, people like those pieces more than the ones that I love.

Tina: Right. Way more often. That's a whole [inaudible 00:54:59]. That's why I wanted to talk to you about that later.

Tina: When you put it out there anyway and you just have the expression out there, there's a bravery to that too. When you had your first show, did you hear anything that made you recede? Did you hear any criticisms? And what did that ...

Calvin Ma: One word that always pops up is, "Oh, that's creepy." And at first I was kind of thrown off but then after a while, I look at my work and I'm like, "Yeah, it is a little creepy." But I like that.

Tina: Right, right, right. Depending on where you hang it and the time of day and what you're thinking, and what's in your lens to project onto what it is.

Calvin Ma: But I just kind of shrug it off. It's not a big thing. Everybody has their own opinions and they're free to have them. I know what my work is about. I love hearing negative and positive, that way I can evolve and change and make things better.

Tina: So in that, when you hear things and you get input and you put yourself in situations and you start creating, at your table right there, just so neat and clean ... are you thinking of the situation or the moments or the feelings when you're creating? Or is it just ...

Calvin Ma: I do if I'm not focused on the show that I'm watching, definitely I'll work out that idea. Maybe I should do this gesture because that might read better as this idea. Yeah, so I do work out the idea with the piece in mind.

Tina: He really wants to pluck your eyebrows out.

Calvin Ma: Yes, he does. But yeah, I do work out the ideas with the pieces while, during those moments.

Tina: So it might hit you at a opening or a party or a gathering, or in the grocery store, wherever you have the feeling, and then you carry it around until you ...

Calvin Ma: Yeah. Then I'll let it stew in my head a little bit and kind of think of ways to bring it out in the clay. Yeah.

Tina: Why clay?

Calvin Ma: I don't know, I think maybe it's the tactile nature of working with it, it just reminds me of playing with my toys. There's something very kid like just playing with clay.

Tina: If you could mold yourself different would you change yourself? The anxiety part?

Calvin Ma: I don't think so. I think it's more honest to have that be a part of the work, you know?

Tina: Yeah.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, I'd just be ... you know-

Tina: It's so wonderfully self-accepting to hear you say that, versus again, we talked about earlier, some people see anxiety as a negative thing or a detriment, and you've turned it into, this is what I'm going with, this is what I'm wearing to the party, this is Calvin.

Angela: Is he nodding again?

Tina: No, he just ... like yes, okay. So you think you're gonna do this ... this is Calvin?

Calvin Ma: Yeah, I think so. Yeah I don't think it's gonna change, it's always gonna be about social anxiety. I don't see myself ever being an outgoing person.

Tina: Right, but it's not your goal.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, it's not my goal, so yeah it's always gonna be the work.

Tina: I like it. What about teaching?

Calvin Ma: Teaching ... me and my wife have been talking about this a lot. What I'm doing now is definitely not sustainable, my hands won't hold up that long. We've been kind of dipping our toes into doing workshops to kind of transition into teaching, because I think that's definitely what's going to be in my life in the future, because I have all this experience working in clay.

Calvin Ma: I had my first workshop, it was maybe two summers ago. It was an honor for someone to reach out and say, "Hey, do you wanna come teach my students." I did a week long thing and it was ... you get a great feeling from passing on what you know and showing people what you do in the studio, and that they're so engaged. There's something about that that's really appealing.

Tina: I loved it, yeah. So do you have anxiety in those situations?

Calvin Ma: I do.

Tina: You do?

Calvin Ma: I do, yeah.

Tina: I figured if you knew your subjects so well, that you wouldn't, you'd be kind of galvanized but you still have it.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, I still have it. When I'm near the clay I get a little more comfortable, but then as soon as you're not working with the clay anymore and you have to speak, that's when the nerves come and kicks in.

Tina: That's so funny. Carry a lump of clay in your pocket.

Tina: So I'm trying to think ... okay, a hard question and kind of a butt head question to ask but I'm gonna ask anyway. If I were to ask you what would you say to people who feel like they have a voice, or an impetus or a want to express, but they aren't because of whatever reason, is there anything that you would say to them?

Calvin Ma: I don't know, it's cheesy, but just go for it. I had no idea what I was gonna do. The thing in my head all the time was social anxiety and I just kinda went with it and it turned into something kind of beautiful.

Tina: Yes.

Calvin Ma: Yeah, it's really cheesy but just go for it. You're never gonna know what's gonna happen if you don't. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Angela: [crosstalk 01:01:00]

Tina: Oh my god, I know! I am too! [crosstalk 01:01:06] I was like, Calvin!

Angela: [crosstalk 01:01:04] I have a couple times.

Tina: The wise thing.

Angela: Yeah, exactly.

Tina: I wish he was here.

Calvin Ma: I'm sorry.

Tina: No this is great, this is great. I'm gonna ... unless I think of, and if I think of anything else I'll come over and have, I call him Mike, he's my [inaudible 01:01:22]. I'm gonna turn you over to Angela because she might wanna get some stuff with you and Rocket.

Calvin Ma: Hello. He's saying hello now.

Angela: Aw, did he say hello?

Calvin Ma: Hello. Say kiss kiss.

Angela: Kiss kiss.

Rocket: KISS KISS

Angela: Aw, he did it!

Calvin Ma: There you go. I love you. I love you. I love you.

Tina: He's like, who are you talking to? Her? Me? Her? Me? Alright, he's yours.

Angela: I just want you right there, actually. I'm gonna try to get your studio. I notice that one of the ... I'm sorry, you call them Homebodies? Or Homeboys?

Tina: Homeboys.

Angela: Homebodies. I notice that the one, I think it's the same one that's sitting up on the shelf is one that was also on a lot of your media, right? Is that the same one? Yeah, so are you holding on to that one for a reason?

Calvin Ma: I'm holding on to that because that's the very first Homebody that I made.

Angela: The very first one. And that is you, yeah. Yeah, that's awesome.

Tina: Oh, that's baby Calving?

Angela: Yeah that's it. Yeah. That's what I thought was funny, that it just sat there on the shelf. It's funny that you should just kind of .... I will, I will, I'll [crosstalk 01:02:35] but I wanted to make sure that that was the right one because I've been photographing ... I've seen all your postcards and your media, and I was like, he did hang on to one.

Angela: And then the one below it ... so the ones that you kept that are right behind you and stay with you always, are those ...

Calvin Ma: Well the little doggy is just something that came back from a gallery. But yeah, I think that one and the wood grain one on the wall there, those are the only two that I really kept from the beginning.

Angela: So are they both embodiments of you? Or the bigger one? Is that ...

Calvin Ma: I can bring that over.

Angela: Well I mean, I was just curious because the other ones I can kind of read into a little bit, but the larger one, I didn't know about the little, I guess that's a little, [inaudible 01:03:26] figures.

Calvin Ma: That's a French bulldog.

Angela: Yeah, a French, that's what I want to get the girls, a French bulldog. But the one to the left of it, that is a very ominous, kind of heavy, weighted ...

Tina: It's the Blend In, the Blend In going to the ...

Angela: So I'm just wondering, I don't know, is that symbolic of ... is that giving away too much or ...

Calvin Ma: No, it's ... I think I was a little more chubby in school and I thought it was cute to make-

Angela: Well I wasn't sure if that one was you or not. The other ones are very clearly embodiments or extensions of, but that one I was curious about. So that's, you're way, way past ...

Calvin Ma: Yeah, yeah. I would say that's in 2010 or 2011.

Angela: Yeah, I love that one. You can see the transformation in your emotion throughout your whole ... it's amazing, I love it. Well I mean, I guess of course [you can also tell but 01:04:23] yeah I love that. I just want you to look at me. I'm trying to get both of you in focus here. I see you guys take pictures too, so you know there's a deal here.

Tina: Look at the bird, it's posing! He went like this, he goes ...

Angela: Rocket, I know! I love it!

Tina: He's doing it again!

Angela: What an awesome surprise! Did you know that he had Rocket? This is my favorite part! And it's community and just the fact that this is, this is definitely home. You know, this is your comfort place, your comfort zone for sure. All the magic happens here, right?

Angela: Oh, that was what I was gonna ask you. Is your home very different than here? Is it kind of the same, do you have little ...

Calvin Ma: It's a lot smaller, but I have a ton of toys on the wall.

Angela: Yeah, you collect those right?

Calvin Ma: I collect toys still, I'm still a huge dork.

Angela: What's your most prized toy? I had a friend, he collected the big toys, like the ...

Calvin Ma: I don't really have a prize one, I think it's the collection as a whole because I've been working at it for so long.

Angela: Why are these two in here? And there's one that I saw.

Calvin Ma: Sometimes just for reference because those are really posable.

Tina: Anatomical things.

Angela: Oh yeah. What is the one on the left, I don't even know what that is.

Calvin Ma: Oh, it's a villain from Ninja Turtles.

Angela: Oh, okay. Yeah, I didn't know that.

Calvin Ma: It's a huge Android body with his brainy, alien character in the tummy.

Angela: Okay, very cool. So do you collect comic books too?

Calvin Ma: I used to. They just take up so much space I had to stop.

Angela: Yeah. Can't keep them around.

Calvin Ma: And you can do everything digital now.

Angela: Yep, exactly. Okay. If you would turn your head towards your kiln over here and then just dart your eyes back at me. Yeah, like that.

Tina: I cannot believe the bird is posing that well.

Angela: I know, I love it. And then ... you were standing over here talking to Tina, when you were talking about your work and showing her that, but you were holding him in your hand and I wanted to get another really good shot of that one too.

Tina: I was probably in your way, wasn't I?

Angela: Well you were ... you weren't really, but I just wanted to get just a full body one. And then, is this your ... who are the Warriors?

Calvin Ma: Oh, the local team here.

Angela: Okay. Basketball? So you watch a lot of basketball?

Calvin Ma: Yeah.

Angela: Did you ever play?

Calvin Ma: I did.

Angela: Were you a forward pointer?

Calvin Ma: Point guard, shooting guard, yeah.

Tina: I was point guard.

Angela: Were you really?

Tina: Yeah.

Angela: I didn't know you played basketball. And I want you just to kind of hold Rocket out to me and then [inaudible 01:06:43] you in the background. [inaudible 01:06:45] beautiful lobby shot. There you go, I knew you would do that, I knew you would! He's so pretty.

Angela: Alright, and then I'll get [inaudible 01:06:55]. Very cool shot.

Speaker 1: ... looks like wood. That's ceramic?

Speaker 2: That's ceramic.

Speaker 1: Yeah. That almost looks like wood. That's crazy.

Speaker 3: Who is that?

Speaker 2: That's my instructor.

Speaker 3: Wow. I love it.

Speaker 1: Yeah. People really do have an influence. Everybody that you run into, every shoulder that you brush. Definitely.

Speaker 3: Tell me about ... There's a lot of-

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's always shut. I used to have it open, but I was like, "That doesn't really work with the concept." I had it closed. That's me.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 1: "That's me."

Speaker 3: I can't believe you grabbed it by the back.

Speaker 2: It's pretty sturdy.

Speaker 1: All right. You want him holding that?

Speaker 3: I do just because it's his first one. It's what he told me about.

Speaker 1: [crosstalk 00:00:47] Okay. Maybe the last one, which I think I got everything.

Speaker 2: The first one here.

Speaker 3: Okay then.

Speaker 1: Yeah, the very first one. We'll do that one.

Speaker 3: I was going to say, that couldn't have been the first one.

Speaker 2: Yeah. This was actually part of a different piece and then I didn't like the way it looked. I made this new face. [inaudible 00:01:02]

Speaker 3: Gotcha.

Speaker 2: Oh, good catch.

Speaker 3: Second time.

Speaker 1: Okay. Well let's do this one then. Which one was the baby? Not this one, but the other one. Right?

Speaker 3: That's good.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 3: That's the transition between blend in and homebodies.

Speaker 1: Let's stand behind these lights back here. Wow.

Speaker 3: [inaudible 00:01:22]

Speaker 1: I know. You're posing.

Speaker 3: She stands still.

Speaker 1: Yeah. You're posing. You like it. Kiss kiss.

Speaker 2: I think it's because my mom always takes pictures with them.

Speaker 1: You're such a bozer. You're so cute.

Speaker 3: He's like, "This is my best side."

Speaker 1: Pretty boy. Yeah. Hi, boy. Yeah, he knows.

Speaker 1: So Lasik stuff?

Speaker 2: It's not Lasik. It's what came before Lasik. Shoot, I didn't update it yet.

Speaker 1: That's scary.

Speaker 2: Yeah. It took me a while to get back to the studio because it took two weeks for me to actually kind of have focus again, and then I was working on this typewriter piece here.

Speaker 1: Oh, cool.

Speaker 2: And I was working on all the little keys and kind of-

Speaker 1: That's hard.

Speaker 2: ... carving the texture in. Then I didn't have my near sight back yet, so it was kind of hard doing that. But I think I struggled most with this piece.

Speaker 3: Where is it now?

Speaker 2: It's in Santa Fe.